I get the point but on the business model if you are buying an aggregate
total service for $4m a year and selling it for $1m and less , depending
that a third of your customers will pay you for nothing and lie about
what everyone is getting as a product ( speed what is is how you are
getting it ( speed how its measured mgb - MGB ) and also pretending that
your customers really only need a portion ( downstream versus up )
then " Houston I think we have a problem ? "
There is a nice article in European mag about service speed lies I will
dig it out and post it
( : ( : pete
Peter Baston
*IDEAS*
/www.ideapete.com/ <http://www.ideapete.com/>
Steve Ross wrote:
> Bear in mind that you can sell at 1/10 X if you assume:
>
> 1. Your users won't all be using the bandwidth at once. (But also bear
> in mind that this won't last, even if it is true now.)
>
> 2. Much of your traffic is local (40% is local in many subnetworks
> today).
>
> 3. Your users won't test their true bandwidth.
>
> ... and yes, the bankers are dumb.
>
>
> Steven S. Ross
> Editor-in-Chief
> Broadband Properties
> steve at broadbandproperties.com
> www.bbpmag.com
> SKYPE: editorsteve
> +1 781-284-8810
> +1 646-216-8030 fax
> +1 201-456-5933 mobile
>
> peter wrote:
>> Agree John, I have a relative who works at L3 ( who laid it all ) in
>> Denver and I watched that sad sale event with the lack of available
>> break offs in NM with horror
>>
>> One of the issues we keep running into is deliberate smoke and
>> mirrors of the logic behind all this
>>
>> What first caught my eye at the INQ site about the open access
>> announcement is the statement that " Its going to cost a lot of money
>> at T3 ", thats the first time I have ever hear that comment and its
>> absolutely spot on
>>
>> In my business world two sets of rules operate, business and
>> technical, and in most cases the B rule is paramount no mater how
>> much gobbledygook technobabble is being thrown around
>>
>> Simply, you cannot buy or operate a service for $4 and sell it for $1
>> unless you really are fond of two numbers 7 and 11
>>
>> Now lets look at the Tier description ( I will not go deep with
>> traffic and routing and services or packet layers just the overall
>> pattern and generic overview )
>>
>> * Tier 1 - A network that can reach every other network on the
>> Internet without purchasing IP transit.
>> * Tier 2 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_2_network> - A network
>> that peers with some networks, but still purchases IP transit to
>> reach at least some portion of the Internet.
>> * Tier 3 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_3_ISP> - A network that
>> solely purchases transit from other networks to reach the
>> Internet.
>>
>> Normally this B rule applies and yes I know there are exceptions
>>
>> Tier 1 suppliers service cost $X and so they sell it to Tier 2 at $X+
>> Tier 2 suppliers service cost $X+ and so they sell it to Tier 2 at $X++
>>
>> Thats why when I hear the rhetoric from a pure Tier 3 supplier (
>> Azulstar - Sandoval County Broadband and others ) that they can
>> supply FULL service service at 1/10 of $X I just roll over and laugh
>> keeping both hands in my pocket.
>>
>> Frequently in our business we look at different industries and apply
>> patterns for comparison and when i ran the 1/10 cost Tier 3 past a
>> banking friend of mine he identified and laughed out loud and
>> immediately he called it a Ponzi scheme and would advise the
>> perpetrators to look forward to a nice comfortable federal
>> penitentiary holiday. He did however compliment the inventors on a
>> new variation until I pointed out banks were financing this and then
>> the Eureka moment turned into an Oh Shit session.
>>
>> Similarly part of our companies business is in the power industry and
>> they have a similar tier structure albeit with a different name that
>> looks like this
>>
>> * Tier 1 - Power production at the power plant source at Ultra HIGH
>> Voltage ( normally in a remote are close to a fuel source )
>> * Tier 2 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_2_network> -
>> Transmission lines that carry the power to local area need sources
>> stepped down to High Voltage
>> * Tier 3 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_3_ISP> - Local delivery
>> transmission and customer service supply stepped down from High to
>> medium and usable voltage
>>
>>
>> One of the great debates that occurred at the breakup of the power
>> industry ( still going on today ) to make efficient cost effective
>> service was first the ownership split of Tier 2 from the incumbent
>> owners of Tier 1 and 3 to prevent monopolization practices that we
>> find common in the communications industry , this natural progression
>> will mean eventually Tier 1 - 2- 3 users must be independent and
>> separate companies. A model we could well follow in our industry.
>> Ironically this is how companies like L3 started
>>
>> The BIGGIE point, and I think this is what John is focusing on, is
>> that if the senior legislatures at both federal and state and county
>> level do not understand what a TIER is let alone a LAYER protocol let
>> alone the difference between MGB and mgb then the Broadbandits win by
>> default and it seems like the only people who really give a dam are
>> people in our groups and so Richard how are we going to Edumakreat (
>> deliberate pun ) them thar burocrustraetions
>>
>> Count me in anyway you want, this sounds like Leapfrog on steroids
>> http://www.ideapete.com/leapfrog.html all over again
>>
>> ( : ( : pete
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Baston
>>
>> *IDEAS*
>>
>> /www.ideapete.com/ <http://www.ideapete.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John Brown wrote:
>>> there are other "major owners"
>>>
>>> You have ATT, Verizon (ex MCI), Global Crossing, Sprint, 360 Networks
>>>
>>>
>>> what people don't understand or know is that many of these don't
>>> "break out" in NM.
>>>
>>> for example you can not get IP transit from Level3 in NM.
>>>
>>> its more complicated that most folks understand, and the layer 8
>>> folks like to keep it that way......
>>>
>>>
>>> peter wrote:
>>>> Precisely the point John --- you look at the primary fiber
>>>> across NM and you see two current major owners Level 3 and Qwest
>>>> . -- end game period. net newt died
>>>>
>>>> Peter Baston
>>>>
>>>> *IDEAS*
>>>>
>>>> /www.ideapete.com/ <http://www.ideapete.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John Brown wrote:
>>>>> and so i wonder how they will handle the fact that they BUY
>>>>> transit from others are are not a tier 1 (meaning default free in
>>>>> the routing table) and those others can/could limit certain types
>>>>> of traffic flows.
>>>>>
>>>>> now if a tier 1 came out and said it was net-neutral, that would
>>>>> be a BIG story.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> peter wrote:
>>>>>> Yup net neutrality at a price --- example from article below "/
>>>>>> //Users in Colorado, for example, will have to cough up a
>>>>>> staggering $33.95 a month for a 256Kbps DSL connection—expensive
>>>>>> by any standard (except perhaps in Kazakhstan
>>>>>> <http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070727-the-internet-in-kazakhstan-welcome-to-the-land-of-3355-per-month-dsl.html>).
>>>>>> "/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/Meet-Copowi-the-worlds-first-ISP-to-guarantee-network-neutrality.ars
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Baston
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *IDEAS*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /www.ideapete.com/ <http://www.ideapete.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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